02 Dec, 2006
The Anime Blog Poll: Do You Love Or Hate Lolicon and Shotacon?
Posted by: Rachel In: Polls
There are things in anime and manga that don’t sit well with me. Some are minor annoyances (angsty, know-it-all day glo 15 year olds) while others disturb me (crazy glomp happy yaoi fan girls) and still others really make me run for a barf bag (sexually charged Yu-gi- oh fan art). Nothing makes me sicker though than when there’s even a hint of sexual innuendo involving anyone under the age of 15-16 with someone at least 10 years their senior (even a five year age difference isgrodie).
I know most anime involves 15 and 16 year olds, but for the most part (believe me I know it’s not always the case) they get it on with other 15 or 16 year olds. Whenever there’s some hint of an older man or woman taking a “keen†interest in a much younger (think 10 or 12 years old) person, I get a lil’ ill. I know that there are instances where a younger character develops a crush on an older character and that’s normal. That sorta thing happens in real life and is a part of a growing child’s search for identity. It’s when an older character acts on said child’s crush that I get that tell-tale “that ain’t right†eye twitch.
I must be naive, though, since I just recently learned the real definition of lolicon. I always thought that lolicon was when some guy has a fetish for Gothic Lolita girls (age appropriate, of course). But noooo, I was wrooongggg and I hate being the only one who doesn’t know what’s what and what the hell is going on.
Lolicon is when a guy likes,in a sexual manner, sweet young girls. Typically these girls are 10 or 12. The male counterpart to this is shotacon, named after the 10 year old hero, Shotaro, of the anime series Tetsujin 28. Watching Tetsujin 28 with a friend was what set this discovery off.
I visited some forums after finding out the real definition of lolicon and shotacon and was sickened. Some people think it’s OK to like little girls and boys just because they’re drawn in an anime style. There was an argument on a forum trying to justify a person’s interest in lolicon by arguing that tentacle rape in hentai was just as amoral as lolicon since rape is bad, m’kay.
Duh; rape=bad. But in hentai it always seems that the girl enjoys it after a while and it’s more of a domination thing rather than all out rape. Don’t quote me on that since I haven’t seen a fraction of all the hentai that’s out there. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with S&M if done in a respectful manner between two (or more) consenting adults. But lil’ kids, no matter how annoying, are lil’ kids and should NEVER be anyone’s sexual fantasy.
I’m super aware that here in America (and probably other countries) school girl fantasies are on most guys’ top 10 list of things “to doâ€. The age group for that’s more like 16-18 year old girls rather than small children. And yes, Gothic Lolitas do dress to look like young girls and don’t dress “sexy†(‘cept of course Erololi) , but they’re still more mature looking and carry themselves in an innocent but ADULT manner rather than small prepubescent girls.
So yes, there are instances when innocence and naivety is a turn on, but for chissakes, it’s usually some clueless chick with a giant rack dressed in a Catholic schoolgirl uniform. How could anyone ever say, “Gee, look at that young child with that dirty manâ€, with a straight face.
Does lolicon turn you on are you seriously offended by real school girl fantasies. Do you like little boys or is Shotaro just the spunky kid in a mecha anime?
Y’know I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen a lolicon relationship in anime (then again probably not surprising given the number of actual relationships in anime).. or a character who was a lolicon and not portrayed as creepy or a joke.. which is pretty much how i’d feel about. “eww” or “lol”
But the shotacon (I’ve seen) I’m actually pretty cool with and give the big thumbs up.. probably because I’m a guy and wish I had hot older women taking passes at me when I was younger. Double standards, but that’s how the cookie crumbles.
Now in regards to loli or shota fanservice (not to be confused with moe fanservice) for the viewers.. well, it doesn’t really rock by boat, but it doesn’t really bother me either, and can sometimes have a laugh at it–unlike say if it was live action, where panty shots on 12 year olds may be more along the lines of “Oh dude, that’s just wrong.“
I don’t see why it isn’t wrong just because it’s a cartoon. People who are turned on by lolicon and shotacon are still buying into the culture of child porn even though it isn’t real. Who can say that it will stop with cartoons for some people? The otaku murders immediately come to mind–he was taking something that was fiction and turning it into reality.
OTOH, Lolita is a very good, if disturbing book.
For the record, since I turned 20 or so, most of my boyfriends have been younger than me but the youngest was 18 when I was 20. My bf now is 6 months younger than me LOL. At least I don’t fawn over Harry Potter like someone I know. >_>
Err, shotacon’s OK -Crayotic Rockwell? C’mon, surely you mean that when you were 16 you considered it to be hot to be hit on by some pant-worthy 20 year old, right? I mean, I dated older guys when I was 16 but no one older than 20. (20 WAS the oldest and I DID get in trouble for that BTW) I just cannot think that a 9-12 year old boy TRULY understands sex the way adults do (or should)
The double standard thing when it comes to it being OK for older men to date younger women and not vice versa, pisses me off. I’m all for Demi Moore (whom I don’t consider to be old) getting busy with Ashton Kuchter who’s 16 years her junior. But if Ashton were 10, YARK!
I think there’s no problem with dating someone 10, 15, even 20 years older than you IF you’re older than 18. IMO, a person should have at least SOME semblance of maturity MENTALLY AND EMOTIONALLY before they have sex. There’s no 9-12 year on the planet that’s emotionally or mentally mature to be sexually active at that age.
I agree with -zingor 100%; what’s to stop some sicko from buying RL child porn after getting all heated up over lolicon and then take the next step after that? Do we all agree that RL child porn is bad?
OK, so why is it OK for someone to be turned on by the budding physique of an anime character? WHY?! Children are children there’s NO need to touch yourself over them, be they animated or RL. Sick dude.
Screw you zingor. (^_^)t
LMAO!!! I was waiting for you to notice that comment.
You’re really getting a lot of use out of those emoticons aren’t you. I sure am. Again, thanks so much for doing the research on those! d^^b
Personally I find shouta more arousing than Lolicon, just because small girls are the same as small boys, but without dicks.
To each his own, but nonetheless, little boys are downright hot.
Personally, if I weren’t already sick as a dog, I’d get sick quick after reading that -Charlie.
Yep, I agree to each his own, but what might start out as a “harmless” fantasy (to you) usually escalates to the point where the feds are at your door, your wife wants to know why you have all this “art” (as you’ve been calling it) of small children (under the bed no less!) and your sister doesn’t want you alone with her lil’ boy anymore.
Pedophilia is pedophilia and it sure as hell doesn’t matter that some dude in Japan drew and colored it at his studio and slapped it online under the name “shotacon”; it’s still pedophilia. I’m guessing I shoulda changed the name of the poll to “Pedophilia; Good or Bad” and waited for the sickos to call in. But they still called in anyway (Wow; 83 people as of this post voted that they adore child sex)..Thanks for reading!
Oh god, if it’s just pictures! I love shotacon, u know, those lil kids having sex as if they didnt knew wat theyre doin’! it’s lovely! Of course, i agree that its repulsive when its pedophilia, when an elder has sex with a youngster. But among themselves, it’s soooo cute!
Wow. I don’t know how I feel about that Ahinna.
*Barf*
So just pictures -Ahinnna? Amazing how we rationalize our dark dirty sides, yes? Is it honestly considered cute when kids are portrayed as “clueless” as to why they’re sticking various appendages in each? Maybe, just maybe, it’s the lolicon and shotacon luv’n anime fans that are clueless.
I KNEW this was a controversial subject but was confused and flat out disturbed by the numbers in the polls. I’ve pulled MANY punches when it comes to answering comments on this site..so very many punches: Anyone who gets off (thinking it’s cute IS a form of gratification) on kids fucking each other is a pedophile.
If you can’t take that coming from me, and chances are you’re not, try showing these “just pictures” to your non-anime friends and watch what happens (OR show ‘em to mom and dad or your teachers! Gee, if they like cute, they’ll loooovvee this). Unless of course birds of a feather like to see kids fucking together
I’ve held off on commenting until now – I keep waiting for someone other than Rachel and Zingor to say “It’s wrong” but they haven’t. So add me to the ‘grossed out and disgusted by lolicon/shotacon club’.
When more people started voting for “I love loicon/shotacon” I told Rachel that people weren’t reading the article – “Perhaps they’re just voting without understanding” I thought. But the 88 (and counting) votes for “I love lolicon/shotacon” (YUCK) and the comments say “I’m wrong”.
While I DON’T think this is representative of the anime community at large, I also DON’T think it’s healthy for the community either.
(Goes away to puke)
That these are animated or “cartoon” representations does not in any way make child pornography acceptable. Unfortunately, acceptance of this type of behavior or depictions of behavior seems to lead to escalation and children are the ones who pay. This isn’t something all that new, but even a small increase in acceptance makes me violently ill.
And I should have said that I am a mother and a grandmother and have been watching anime for about two years now, a wide variety of different types of anime, nearly to the exclusion of other types of movies. While I have watched some of the stuff I regard as darker, and I do avoid the little kid anime, it still just amazes me that any one could consider this “okay.”
I dunno its kind of a sketchy subject, there definately is a difference between the drawn and the real thing. the drawn stuff i admit does attract me, for some reason i look at it and i get some excitement out of it, generally with the yuri lolicon and such, I find it adorable. On the other hand, I truely find the pictures of real children utterly repulsive… I can barely stand seeing my younger siblings in the buff when i used to help run their baths and babysit them and such when they were younger. Flame as you will, but there are many levels to this stuff so you cant just say ‘ you like lolicon, your probrably gonna go rape children you pedophile! ‘ its not just an escalator its like how some people are just attracted to bizarre things, it depends on the person and wether they have enough sense in them to keep their desires in check. which really isn’t that hard, we just have a handfull of sickos that you always hear about, you never hear about a well adjusted person who looks at the stuff but never does anything illeagal and wrong.
Thank you so much Rae, for being a voice of reason.
Marteal, you like yuri lolicon, but not child porn because you say there is a difference between the real thing and a drawn version? I’m sorry but the idea is still there. I can not differentiate the two.
Like Rachel and Dave, I first thought that these poll results were a fluke. Now that you have shown me otherwise, I am not really sure how to take it. Are you people all friends, having a laugh at our expense? Unfortunately, I doubt that. What the hell is wrong with society that so many people find this acceptable if it is animated?
Seriously people. WTF?!?
So are things like Vore acceptable because they’re animated then? It’s like being gay or not with some people, you can’t help but get a certain reaction out of specific images, a lot of people are born with it, and you say i somehow make some sort of decision that its different when theres no difference when there really is, one is at the expense of some poor child made to feel things they shouldn’t for many many years, the idea may still be there but most of the community i i know of that follows loli/shota absolutely detest and make it a bannable offense to even talk about the real thing.
You speak as if we have no morals at all and we have something terribly wrong with us and were a plague on society, why don’t you champion a campaign against people who draw snuff, or vore, or all the other violent hentai pictures. I’ve personally never broken the law aside from a single speeding ticket, and i would never ever try to hurt anyone who hasn’t seriously wronged me to start and even then im a very forgiving person.
when you agree that its okay when its fantasy and not when its real is not leading to the suffering of children. its leading to the opposite because people know the difference between whats fake and whats real, its perfectly alright for people to die in anime, most people watch violent animes like berserk for 2 things, the story and to see Gatts cut a straight line through an entire battlefield of people. The violence gets your blood pumping, but most people would have nightmares/vomit/etc.
if they every came close to seeing a real bloodied battlefield with the dying still on it. Knowing that someone is suffering to make real child porn is an utter turn off for alot of people who look at loli/shota and by all means it is a disgusting practice that some disturbed individuals take interest in, but you have to see that if someone was going to look at real CP then theres not much thats going to stop them, there isn’t a graduation system where you move from cartoons to the real thing.
Im not asking you to see it as perfectly acceptable, im just asking you to consider that looking at it might be out of something else other than to get ready to traumatize a real child for life.
Snuff=bad, rape=bad, vore=I don’t know WTF (it’s the fantasy of being eaten alive) but I guess it’s “bad”.
All these things can be and ARE some people’s sexual fantasies and many, many people PLAY act them out in the comfort of their own homes on a daily basis. So why is it OK to “live” these out while it’s considered a punishable offense to even OWN pedo-paraphernalia? CONSENT.
Consent is the green light which makes it OK to have someone crap on you, mash your balls with a block of ice and stick a stilletto heel up your ass. Adults have the wherewithal to say “Choke me till I pass out” “Whip me till I bleed” or “Tie me up so I can’t breathe”
That might seem sick and twisted to most people, and some of that is definitely NOT my bag, but once again (I can’t seem to say this enough, but I do cuz people AREN’T getting the memo): When it’s between willing and CONSENTING ADULTS it’s no one’s bussiness but their’s. No one’s getting hurt or emotionally scarred, or ruining someone’s life. These people know what they’re doing and WANT what they’re doing.
Kids CAN’T give consent to something they don’t have a clue about. And try as sickos might to train kids to be sexy and LIKE sex, kid’s are just doing what they’re told to get that Snicker bar.
Who cares if it’s drawn or animated? I agree with Zingor, the intention is THERE. Drawings are supposed to imitate life. Even if it’s in the anime style, it’s still representative of life. Hence why drawing child sex is baaaddd.
Should I start a campaign against snuff pics and vore? Are snuff films and vore really gonna up the incidences of murder and people getting eaten alive (last I heard of ANYONE getting eaten alive was the Grizzly Man incident and he got eaten by a rogue bear)? Not likely. Are pics of kidde porn gonna up the chances of some nutjob touching his nephew? M’yep. I’m going to go outta on a limb and say it’s easier to molest a child and get away with it than it is to kill a cognizance adult or eat them alive.
Rape is never consensual thats why its RAPE and anything drawn cannot consent to anything regardless if its a drawing of an adult or otherwise, i agree with you that consent is a big thing which is why i believe that child porn is completely disgusting and wrong, and cognitive adults are killed all the time, apparently to you getting off on death and suffering is okay if its real but consensual but i cant look at a drawn picture and masturbate to it that isn’t violent, hurtful of human life or otherwise destructive. I suppose it doesn’t matter what i say to you, since, this is the internet and if someone doesn’t want to consider someone else’s point of view they don’t need to.
>>”apparently to you getting off on death and suffering is okay if its real”
O_o I don’t recall anyone saying that.
And nowhere is it written that we do not want to consider other’s viewpoints. In fact, if I recall, this was a POLL which was intended to see what other viewpoints there were. I happen to seriously disagree with you but your viewpoint was read and considered.
I stupidly assumed that the majority viewpoint would be “hey, this is a big NO NO” but I guess I was wrong.
>>”but i cant look at a drawn picture and masturbate to it that isn’t violent, hurtful of human life or otherwise destructive”
I think maybe you meant this a little differently? Too many negatives…I hope?
not too many negatives it just seemed to me when i read your last post that it was okay to look at drawn pictures of all those other things as long as it was between consenting adults though mostly all ive seen of said pictures or in animated hentai is stuff that is most definately not consented to tentacle rape while making the woman moan and stuff usually still leaves them afraid and hudled ina corner and im not sure if ive ever seen any animes where the victim of a snuff is voluntary, as long as its drawn fantasy and that its between consenting adults. That is just what i got when i read your posts, i don’t mean to transform your words, this is just how i interpreted them. My opinion will remain that as long as i am not hurting anyone i am okay with it, and i don’t think that will change, the only way i will stop looking at these pictures is if it somehow begins to fund the creation of the real thing, that is just where i stand. and as for the last part where you quoted me i was expressing my irritation that just because a character has a younger body that i appreciate seemed to translate into me threatening real world children.
My last post? Do you mean Rachels post? There are several people here who are disagreeing with you. And no one here has condoned tentacle rape or any other form of non-consensual hentai.
I never said you were threatening children either. I do believe however, that finding small children sexually attractive is a sick thing and I seriously hope that none of the many people who voted will ever act on this.
It may just be that it is a sexual preference like hetero-homo-a-sexuality. In which case, many people never act on these much more normal and harmless desires. I am inclined to believe, in that case, that it may be possible that people who are into this will never touch children.
I am more inclined to believe, however, that you people are all seriously ill and I have no idea how frail those boundaries between the animation and the real thing may be. That scares me.
We are talking in circles and repeating ourselves a lot so I suggest that perhaps this conversation should end.
I will not come around and start to find little kids sexy, and you will not come around and find it all as terribly wrong as I do.
I should add that although I personally never said you are presently threatening children, that is not the belief of others on this blog.
Sorry, I hit submit before I read through my first post.
Agreed, -Zingor, we’re all talking in circles here. These ideas can’t be hammered out effectively via the internet; the nuances and subtleties just don’t get through.
At least by discussion, it is coming into the open and hopefully, when things are in the open, it is a little easier to protect those who need the protection so desperately and to stop those people who are not able to stop themselves. This is a vast improvement over the 1950s and 1960s attitudes. I am glad I tripped over this discussion.
“It may be possible that people who are into this will never touch children.”
Thank you for your expert opinion. I’m sure you’ve researched the matter much more thouroughly than your sensationalist shadowbox prose would indicate. I also appreciate your concern for my “serious illness,” and agree that my masturbatory preferences tamper with my ability to discern between cartoon and reality. I almost summoned a giant frog by biting my nail yesterday. Thank God for the frail, frail boundary line that prevented my trip to Starbucks on Saturday from turning into a furious raping of all children within my line of sight.
I also acknowledge that the Boys Empire anthology on my HD will culminate, classic of a slippery slope, into a slow decay towards nude child photography. I should definitely seek professional help for my private, thirty minute before-bed fantasies, as psychological treatment for sexual preference has such a wonderful track record.
I agree with Rae that the government should censor the internet to protect us from ourselves. Who KNOWS what criminal activity would brew if the unwashed masses gained access to free information and data sharing. We should also remove lascivious paintings from Renaissance art museums, as they include potentially dangerous sexual and secular connotations. It is truly a great improvement over 50s attitudes that the society and government can conform the masses by restricting access to controversial material.
But why stop at lolicon and shotacon? Rape fantasies are harmful to the American nation, and should be forcefully removed from women’s sick, sick minds. BDSM and toture fetishes have commonly manifested in the death, injury, and degradation of participants. These should also be made illegal!
Obviously, the removal of these outlets will erase the greater problems of the world.
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You people are ridiculous. Ten years from now, you’ll sound just like the gay-bashers of the last generation. Get a clue, and cut the drama. Nothing in the world is “just wrong.” There is no slippery slope. Stop criticizing other people’s harmless recreations and turn it on your own sins and hypocrisies.
- Jacob, while I appreciate you taking the time to post, I strongly disagree with your point of view:
Your entire message drips with sarcasm. So are you saying that in ten years it will be perfectly acceptable for children to have sex? Or to sexually abuse children? I’d hate to live in an insane world where child porn is acceptable.
I also fail to see how we’ve compared homosexuality to lolicon and shotacon.
I also fail to see where anyone has mentioned censorship in any form. Could you explain how you arrived at that conclusion?
Ten years was an extremely liberal estimate. I acknowledge your right to disagree with me. However, common presumptions on shota/loli are, in my experience (which is much greater than yours) completely unfounded.
Your sarcasm detection is good. Your ability to understand it is terrible. Where, from my entire post, do you get the indication that I support sex with children?
The mantra about loli/shota’s connection to child molestation and child pornography is a public fiction. It’s a weak argument, supported by popular opinion rather than evidence. In reality, people enjoy this type of stimulus without any ill effects. Child rapists aren’t even interested in sex to begin with. Shota/loli is harmless pornography, and – in some cases – not even viewed pornographically.
If you bothered to read up on the relation between underage-sexual stimulus and actual pedophilia, you might think differently.
http://tinyurl.com/242lb8
I was primarily responding to zingor’s quote: “It may be possible that people who are into shotacon/lolicon will never touch children.†In my mind, that is a blow-for-blow equivalent of “It may be possible that people who are into Hentai will never rape women.”
I never arrived at the conclusion that child sex/CP should be accepted. You presumed it.
The censorship bit was directed at Rae.
In any case. Nothing beats a furious rant.
Take what you may from this interaction. There’s no conspiracy. There’s no decay. There’s no illness. There are only mother-defense groups who drastically misunderstand the source and reasons for child sexual abuse – of whom parents are notable culprits.
Loli/shota’s three principle bases [(A) Pedophiles (B) Underconfident males (C) Yaoi fangirls with a young taste] have little relation to it.
Again, take what you may. But crusader moralizing doesn’t solve anything.
No one is “crusader moralizing.”
I want you to look at that link you sent. Here is a quote:
“5% admitted to having masturbated to such fantasies, and 7% indicated some likelihood of having sex with a child if they could avoid detection and punishment”
Forgive my rudimentary math skills but 7 is higher than 5, I believe. This means that there are a greater percentage of people who would willingly have sex with children if they could get away with it than those who masturbate to it.
You are hardly proving a point with that.
And how dare you compare this to “gay-bashing.” What consenting ADULTS do with eachother is harmless. What an adult does to a child who doesn’t know better is abuse.
I stand my ground. You are sick.
As I said before, nothing you say will convince me otherwise. We are making the same points over again.
I have nothing futher to say here.
This conversation should seriously end now.
Comments are now closed on this topic.