There was always something about certain anime that would irritate the hell outta me. I could never say what exactly since it seemed pretty elusive to describe. After going through NewType USA with Chikashi, I finally have a name to put to a face Рmo̩.
Gah, I loathe weak female characters, aka moekko. Loathe them. I would put down a book and fume if there was a female character acting weak and dependent. I don’t want to read that crap so why would I want to multiply that irritation and watch it?
I had no idea that people liked weak and sheltered girls (moekko are considered “innocent†but innocent is usually synonymous with weak and weepy in anime). What the hell is there to like?
Another aspect of moé, besides the overwhelming “cuteness”, is the fetishes (supposedly non sexual…yeah right) that fans have developed for anime girls over time. Some of the fetishes are glasses for one thing (meganekko), cat girls for another (nekomimi), maids (meido), and sometimes, tomboys (bokukko). Bokukko are the female stereotypes that call themselves “boku”. Boku is “I†in Japanese but it’s used only by young men. These girls are really energetic, happy and usually cute.
After realizing that it’s been moé that’s been causing me grief with anime, I’ve been able to spot it more easily than before. Forewarned is forearmed, as far as I’m concerned, and if Dave pulls out a moé rich anime, at least I know what I’m in for.
What are your thoughts on the subject of moé? Do you want mo’ moé? Is less more when it comes to moé, or are you like me and want less gimmicks in anime and mo’ plot?
*loves on post* I completely agree with you on all points
I have no idea why people like characters to be submissive to the degree of fetishism.
I personally don’t think it’s about the weak irritating girls (which I too loathe). I’ve seen a bunch of anime with the main moe-type girls and thought the non-weak, non-annoying ones were cool. If you remember this past year’s Saimoe, there was this one guy that kept ranting that any girl that could beat the others in a fight or stand up for herself at all should not be allowed to win the tournament, and though you might think people would have agreed, I didn’t see a single person that didn’t rant him out for being a single-minded jerk. Moe is just a feeling, you see, of liking, admiring, wanting to protect and be protected by, differing from person to person… And although plenty of series are nothing but fanservice, a lot more that have characters specifically designed to be moe yet also have strong plots.
…oh, and me? I like cute underclassmen and meganekun.
I have no idea why people like characters to be submissive to the degree of fetishism. because I do believe that it is a fetish, i-k, and that’s why so many people really like moe. That’s just a thought, however. I’m going to wait and see what moe fans have to say before I can truly make a statement about why moe is so popular.
I think there are varieties of moe, -Sana Jisushi, and I also think that the weak submissive moekko are what many people think of when someone mentions moe. I have no issue with meganekko or nekomimi, as long as they’re a part of the storyline and not a gratuitous prop.
I like your idea that moe is a feeling of admiration and a desire to protect. That idea makes moe sweet and innocent. Sadly, however, studios have driven moe to the point where it’s now considered fan service. And yeah, meganekun are indeed cute, *looks at Dave* ^o^…
Yah…before this I didn’t know the term was moe, but I really don’t care for it. I dig gutsy, strong heroines rather than the pathetic helpless yet cutesy kind. But, the nice thing about Anime is there are almost as many sub genres as there are interests. “I’ll take a dash of comedy, romance, and action sans moe. Pile on the supernatural intrigue if you could. Thanks!”
Ah yes, moé…a term which has a nebulous definition and didn’t even exist when I started watching anime.
Here’s my 2 yen worth (I guess that would be 2.3 yen at current exchange rates). First, to me moé is not a genre or sub-genre. Rather, I think it is an emotion or emotional reaction to a fictional character. These characters span over most if not all the genres like romance, comedy, drama, science fiction, fantasy, etc. This emotional reaction is a form of affection usually though not always given to a female character (an exception would be Jun of Happiness). A rough male equivalent to moé is another recent term “gar”. Again, this is mostly male, but there are some female characters which may be considered gar…Revy of Black Lagoon for example.
Anyway, I digress.
This attraction may or may not include a sexual element as well as a fetish element. Unfortunately, these latter two elements have been a dominant factor lately. This is similar to what has happened to another term “fan service” which today almost exclusively refers to racy/sexual content meant to titillate the viewer. The broader definition of fan service is content which does not necessarily contribute to the story, but is meant to amuse/entertain the viewer especially for the big fans. These are equivalent to Easter Eggs found in games and applications. One example is that Ken Akamatsu had one scene in one episode of his Love Hina series set in his studio…ironic that he is better known for the other type of
fan service.
But, I digress…again.
Anyway, as I was saying, the sexual/fetish aspect of moé has become dominant. This has been exacerbated by the commercial aspect. You may want to check out this article which looks at moé:
http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/12/04/moe-as-commodity/
I find his definition of moé interesting though I haven’t decided whether or not I agree with it:
“As for my own definition of “moe,†I define it as the emotion that results from projecting one’s own weaknesses onto a character. It exposes the vulnerabilities that one wants to hide in a manner that will not cause emotional damage due to the fact that it is via a fictional character that cannot do any real harm. It creates a comfort zone wherein one can be emotionally free. Thus, moe is neither completely sexual nor completely non-sexual. The associations and individual has with the act of exposing one’s true emotions, as well as the target of this emotional projection, factors into whether or not the viewer relates moe to eroticism. The result is that the relationship between moe and sexuality should be judged on a case by case basis.”
I would recommend reading the full article to see the above quote in its full context.
As for me, I like what I call moé-moments (no, I refuse to call them moe-ments). These happen with characters not usually associated with moé. For example, Revy of Black Lagoon during the second season was shown playing with some kids (okay so she was showing them how to shoot and die properly) but that scene and the one following showing her reaction when she realized Rock was watching was a moé-moment for me. Another, less violent example…Skuld from the last episode to the second season of Aa! Megami Sama…the moé-moment here was when she spotted the young Keichi…and no, I do not consider Skuld a moé character normally.
Sorry for the long post, but it is a rather complex topic to me.
-Chris, I also prefer female characters to have a strong, willful, can-do attitude.
Everyone, male and female, has weak moments. My issue is the way the studios takes a weak moment and multiplies it to the point where it is no longer personal, but interactive. Sharing a bad moment with close friends is one thing; falling to the floor in front of strangers into a well posed heap, complete with artfully arranged tears, is another.
Male characters have weak moments, but it’s usually an internal struggle that, we the audience, are only aware of through his inner dialog. Why can’t female characters be created with more inner strength? Baffling…
They’ve gone a bit too much in the ‘moe’ direction over the past year or so (I tend to find dojikko-type characters ‘moe’ for the fact they tend to try hard and fail… and so, seem to need protection/affection/reassurance). Skuld… I wouldn’t have called ep 22 a ‘moe’ moment for her, although the DVD-only eps of 1st season had a few moe moments (when Skuld was coping with the whole grown-up ting and the possibility she MIGHT like Keiichi, or when Urd was dealing with the idea of talking to that boy).
There must be a huge fan base for moe, – Haesslich, if studios are throwing it into anime like they’re doing now. You can only be pandering if there’s someone to pander to.
-Mochi, that’s some in depth dialog about moe! But since moe in it’s current amount can be considered fan service, I’d rather the studios ditch it all together. I don’t like to be forced to guess which anime is going to be mostly moe fan service and which anime relies on actual plot. Too much fan service is distracting and tasteless, to me. In comedies, fan service can be a good gag, but purely fan service based comedies annoy me.
@Haesslich – I haven’t seen the DVD only episodes yet, but having read the synopses, I suspect that, as you say, there are probably moé-moments in each. Since moé is vaguely defined, there is a wide range of (sometimes conflicting) views of what it is. For me, I had mentioned the Skuld scene because it seemed spontaneous and gave me that little emotional hit which I associate with moé. I suspect most would consider this scene as simply kawaii. In my opinion, most of what is considered moé today feels contrived rather than spontaneous and for me, the latter is important. Because of this, most of what I consider moé happens in a short amount of time…10 seconds or less…thus the term moé-moment. The Revy example was an exception to this…probably because it was with a character I would not normally associate with moé.
@Rachel – If you haven’t yet read it, I would suggest you read the article I mentioned. It attempts an academic approach to the subject. It falls into three sections. The first deals with the meaning of moé. The second address the title issue…moé as commodity. The third provides the author’s own views. As I had mentioned, I think it interesting even if I question some of the assertions. I believe the second section may address some of issues you have about why the studios produce so many anime with weak/almost helpless female characters in the name of moé. Personally, I think that there is an additional reason for this. Even today, Japan is still rather a male dominant society. In manga/anime this is true as well. Most of the studio executives are men as are the staff…some exceptions would be CLAMP, Rumiko Takahashi, Izumi Aso (though now semi-retired from manga), and Kyoko Mizuki. This, plus the commercial aspect, probably colors their decisions on the content of many of their anime. I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but I would like to mention again that fan service does not always mean sexy/racy shots or moé. Granted the term has almost become synonymous with those other terms, but the meaning is wider and is still practiced as such today. Some examples of past and near-current types of fan service include:
Sorry again for the long post…sometimes I get carried away.
If someone has already said this, I apologize. Did not read all the posts. Found this site by accident. Not a flame, just a statement. I think that people like the cute submissive girls because they are non-threatening. They’re not in your face, irritatingly bitchy women. They come across, in the anime I’ve seen that has them (WHICH IS ADMITTEDLY LIMITED) as people who enjoy life and who try and make other people happy. I’m not sure when that became such a bad thing in this world, or why it became irritating. Why must we constantly be threatened? Why must women be threatening? I admit that some of these will come across as objectified, but to be a person who is innocent, happy, fun-loving, and cute is not necessarily a bad thing. I don’t think that all women should be portrayed as bad-asses, nor should we suggest that no women, anywhere, need to be treated delicately.
i dont care,i just dont watch them,my favorite anime doesnt have any moe(there is a little girl in the group but she is not moe but she doesnt fight also,but she gets a important paper later and in the sequel she also gets to be more important so its not so bad)
ps:i am talking about hokuto no ken1 and hokuto no ken2(honestly the first one is better but that was because in the sequel i thought that the villains were not as easy to like as in the first hokuto)
@Somebody, I have no issue with sweet innocence. I have a huge issue with women who are portrayed as weak and mindless so male viewers can feel empowered. By empowered, I mean have protective feelings they actually believe they can fulfill towards moe women.
Being cute isn’t a bad thing, I personally love cute things, but it’s the undertone flowing through some cuteness that can be annoying or disturbing. Cute for cute’s sake is fine in small doses, but sexy cute is irritating, especially if it’s being rolled off the production to entertain fanboys.
is it a problem if you have all of those moes??
9aThank’s for greate post.6o I compleatly disagree with last post . ixk
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