Deviant artist, MightyOtaking has just released his five part “The Rise and Fall of Anime Fansubs“. In it, he breaks down the current state of fansubs and fansub groups. He bemoans how fansubs have become more flashy than an anime itself, and have become distracting and annoying.
Angry fans and fansubbers alike have responded furiously to his videos, calling his work everything from “arrogant” to a bit of “faggotary”. If you haven’t already seen it:
While the man may have taken the absolute worst examples of fansubbing to prove his point, he still manages to concisely make it by citing examples and contrasting them. He even goes so far as to research various experts in the field of translation and inserts their views on translation. MightyOtaking, aka, Paul Johnson, goes on to say that fansubs just ain’t what they used to be: clear and legible.
I personally don’t watch many fansubs, and have never encountered the wretched examples he highlights in his piece. But if I ever did have to sit through something as gut wrenching as the ones he chose, I too would be inspired to create an outlet for my pain.
To me, his video is one that isn’t meant to necessarily point fingers and condemn, although it really does, but to try and tell people to be more inclusive with their work. I believe what he’s trying to say is that if you love anime enough to want to share it by fansubbing it, make it so that newbies and veterans alike can get something from the experience.
I’ve also read in ranting responses to this movie that fansubbing is about “competition” and “fun“. If that’s what translation has devolved into, then fansubbers who believe in competition should call their work something else. Call it something like Hyper-Cultural Language Lesson x 1000!!!, but don’t call it translation. I totally back what he says about localizing the dialog, and that means translating it.
I also have to agree that the screen is not the place to explain a cultural reference. I’m of the school of thought that in order to learn, people need to work at it. Having something handed to you like that is just plain lazy. If someone’s curious about a reference, pause the DVD, write down the words and look it up. There are these vast stone building, filled with books and information called libraries. And then there’s the entire internet. Going to either or both will result in learning more than originally planned. That’s priceless. Sitting in front of a screen, hitting pause, and reading a cultural reference, that’s lazy. We don’t need anymore lazy.
Enough about what I think of what MightyOtaking is saying, what about you? Are you a fansubber? Has his video cheesed you off ten ways to Sunday? Does he make a valid point? Should we be grateful for the current state of fansubs or should fansubbers go back to the old school method of translation? Do you like the fansubs being put out, or do you agree with Mr. Johnson? What’s your reaction to the controversial fansub documentary?
Well, if you see the worst of something then you won’t want to mess with it. But you should show some good examples as well. I imagine that some fansubs are decent.
Also you must keep in mind that fansubs are not made by professionals. You should not expect them to be. Some people just don’t know good design qualities, like what is a good or bad font to use or what’s a bad color to use.
I personally don’t find too many horrible fansubs. They are far from perfect. Then again I have no clue what fansubs used to be like because I’ve only started into them in the past several years.
I think that if you go looking for something wrong, you can always find it.
Warning: Long response Tyme! =P
I actually do see where he’s coming from. I’ve seen a lot of fansubs (and professional subs/dubs, for that matter) that randomly leave Japanese words untranslated. Not only does this alienate the audience, it means that something that once meant, I don’t know, ‘Strawberry’ (ichigo) is just a random foreign word to most people, of course that kind of thing is going to change the meaning/impact from what was originally intended. Same goes for a multitude of ’special moves’ – those names where mostly descriptive titles in there original form, so why not have that in English too? On the other hand, that’s also the reason some fansubbers have taken to trying to translate on-screen text in a fashion that mimics the original, so I’m kind of confused as to why he did such a complete 180 on that. At least they’re making an effort, that’s more than you can say for certain ‘professionals’.
Yet, personally, I do like certain (most) things left alone, the many honorifics from the Sgt Frog series, for example, are something I’d rather people did not change, even though I do see what ‘Otaking’ is getting at.
To me the most sensible solution seems to be to split up some of the fansubbing, have some groups focus on translations that maintain Japanese words and others that try to make as literal and full a translation as possible. For that matter it wouldn’t be too hard to provide versions with explanations in and out of the actual animation or create openings clear of excessive clutter as well as versions with that karaoke effect. This way we’d have more ‘accessible’ versions of fansubs around for those just developing an interest in Anime without having to ruin things for those that like fansubs just fine as they are.
Side note; Love how he fails to mention the many times ‘professional’ translators have done the exact things he hates, such as Bleach still using zanpakut? in the ‘official’ translation, as well as ignoring many well crafted fansubs. Clearly the professionals are without fault and the rest of us need to stop supporting these ‘illegal’ (I still can’t believe he said that) translations straight away!
~227
@scottfrye, It’s really tough to wrangle anyone working for free into following any kind of rules, unless it’s for charity. Let alone wrangle a group of pesky fansubbers together and get them to agree on a code or protocol. It takes like mindsets working together to make a change, and frankly, it doesn’t seem like current fansubbers will be doing that any time soon.
@Caitlin, that’s true. But it seems especially true when it’s something or someone we admire and we see them going down a dark path. Perhaps anime is something Otaking really loves and can’t bear to see devolve into what he highlighted. Tough love mayhap?
@Genome227, I agree that fansubbing should be split. Because let’s face it, the fansubbers who are doing this aren’t going to throw away their crazy fonts and culture notes and start down the path of righteousness. And if that’s what makes certain fans happy, so be it. It doesn’t make me happy, but there are other fansubbers out there- if I were to start watching more fansubs.
I think he may have a point that distribution companies might start making their subs similar to this because they believe this is what fans want. If so, I think they’d lose money, since fans who pay for their anime will be like, WTF is this?
Personally, I think Anime is an extremely cultural media. Translating everything in plain English with a straight face will often completely estrange the feelings that the creators had in mind.
Anybody who has watched his share of anime WILL have developed a curiosity for Japanese culture, will have developed some basic otaku culture. Those are essential to truly appreciate anime. Just like jumping straight into “Lucky Star” when you haven’t seen any anime before. 99% of the jokes will fly straight by you without you ever knowing they’re there. A lot of the same with “Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei”.
I believe plain English has it’s place, however, in some cases, it is definitely inferior.
I don’t believe fansubbing should be split. I believe newcomers should be directed to “culturally neutral” animes before going on to other stuff.
By culturally neutral, I mean stuff like Hellsing or Full Metal Alchemist. They’re not exactly neutral but you can get into them without any previous experience.
@jp-zer0, I also agree that anime is a cultural medium. However, I think a really good translator will be able to keep the essence of the anime alive.
The Japanese in jokes will fly by many people, true, but I’d rather look them up on my own time rather than have an anime spoon feed me my laughs by using extensive notes.
I don’t agree that English is inferior. It’s neither better nor worse, but since pretty much everyone in the states speaks it, American fansubbers making fansubs for Americans should at least try and reach out to new fans by translating as much as possible. Words like kimono and sushi are going to pretty much stay as is, but the chan can be “honey” or “sweetie” and sensei can be “professor”, “doctor”, “teacher”, “elder”, etc. The same feelings can be conveyed with a little extra work.
I think the operative word in fansub is “fan”. I never really thought twice about the liner notes. In fact, I prefer liner notes to a word that doesn’t translate well into English getting the short end of the stick. In shows that really focus on Japanese culture it’s better to grasp the authenticity rather than just to translate it into English.
Some of the things he points out are kind of silly and he seems to be attempted to pick a fight. Like arguing against using honorifics. This is just something that has been accepted by fansubbers at this point. It really doesn’t have any effect on the story.
One example of where honorifics had a big impact on the dialog is in Dragon Ball Z (using DBZ as an example is going to risk my reputation but… so be it) the Ginyu Force refers to Vegeta as “Vegeta-Chan”. There really is no way to translate this to give an equivalent impact. “Little Vegeta” or referring to him as “her” might have gotten the message across in the same way but not in the exact way the author intended.
2004: Subs? Yey!
2009: Subs? Meh.
“Fansubbing” is indeed “funsubbing.”
My fellows absolutely love watching other people’s subs and finding mistakes, to see what they do, aside from watching the series. They laugh at encoding methods of others, those kind of things, It adds to THEIR entertainment. Even though I’m part of the team, I think I’m the resident team killjoy/bore, but I stick to it.
I once told off a typesetter who placed their group name inside Toei’s own triangular logo. I am a fansubber with rather old-school methods, such as no-licensed-series, no-karaoke, no-honorifics rule. But I don’t rock the boat, because there’s no point getting stressed trying to convince a fellow to another point of view. Likewise, I don’t join a group then tell their leader to change this and that. You might get something like “Go form your own group then.” or the euphemistic “If that makes you happy, good luck..”
Urgh, no modify/delete button.
Even though I’m a modern fansubber, I agree with his points. I was raised on old school stuff after all. The documentary was conveyed in a very selective and aggressive manner that leaves many people on the defensive.
Whats so bad about liner notes all of the sudden? He says that otaku no video had no on screen notes and instead came with a book. Who the hell wants to have to thumb through a book while they are watching animu? The same problem with text files. It’s more convenient when the notes are on screen. I just hope that the fansubs groups of today don’t start doing things different because of people like that.
I’m going to have to agree with MightyOtaking on several parts, one of which is the fansubbers filling the screen with their own ego stroking, and ultra fancy subtitles are beyond distracting. As for the occasional Japanese word being left in, normally I have no problem with that especially if it’s a made up or single use noun like Bleach’s Zambakto, but words like nee-san, onee-chan, etc can not only be translated into English quite easily but the full meaning can be expressed using common English words quite nicely. I’m convinced that many fan subbers are leaving these Japanese honorifics in not because of an Otaku worship of the Japanese language, but because of their own shortcomings with the English language.
Fortunately the main complaint that MightyOtaking expresses is easily resolved with container files such as the .mkv format. Annoyances like translators notes and explanations of what a character is doing when they’re doing something uniquely Japanese can be turned on and off as needed by the viewer. Even the translations of signs and printed matter can be turned on and off, if the fan subber built the .mkv file correctly. And for me that’s great, because sometimes I don’t mind a little cultural education, but sometimes I just want to watch the giant robots.